Whoaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Who is that man above? Just read the caption and you will see.
This post started when I lost my Bible. I still haven’t found it and everyone has looked for it.
What does the loss of a Bible have to do with the Battle of Armageddon? Keep reading and you’ll know.
I put my Bible (and planner) down somewhere at work and it disappeared. I wasn’t too disappointed because we have Bibles all over the place where I work. You see, we hand them out to anyone who wants one (We give them the complete NLT…not my favorite but good enough).
I had lost an NASB of pretty good quality.
You know how you put something down somewhere, it “disappears,” and you give up looking for it because you figure it will eventually show up. That’s where I was for a couple of days and a weekend.
(Ignore the picture above. It has nothing in common with this post except the word “disappear.”)
What does the vanishing Bible have to do with the Battle of Armageddon or an Egyptian king? Keep reading and you might make a discovery.
People donate Bibles to the place I work. They come in all shapes, sizes, condition, and translation. I opened a file cabinet less than a week after I lost my Bible and there it was, the donated Bible that had intrigued me when it came in. I had forgotten about it, but now I was glad to see it. It has become my new work Bible. I will note the name of the Bible in the footnotes. It is one thick hombre.
It is a King James Bible and there is an interesting work in it. How accurate the work is I don’t know. But it dates most major Biblical events; things like the creation and the Exodus. I’ve never heard of it before I saw this one.
I have always been curious about the identity of the Pharaoh that Moses saw as an adult. The 1965 version of Halley’s handbook gives different possibilities about those who may have oppressed the Hebrews and about the pharaohs who may have denied Moses’ request to “let my people go.”
Halley notes Pharaohs who may have met in the duel over the Hebrews. They are Amenhotep II (his mummy is at Thebes), and Merneptah (his mummy is in Cairo). In fact, Halley lists these two as the “two leading opinions.”(1) Dating systems put these pharaohs around 200 years apart with about 10 pharaohs between them.
I found 53 possible exodus candidates in only two other sources (if one includes the Hyksos pharaohs…a group of outsiders that invaded Egypt). I didn’t have to look far to find my 53 (also my age). Imagine if I had really studied this thing.
Mr. Halley writes “If the exodus was under Merneptah, then Rameses II was the great oppressor of Israel, whose daughter brought up Moses. (2)
“Thus Moses was brought up either under Thothmes III (Mr. Halley has spelled Thutmose III two different ways) or under Rameses II, both of whom were among Egypt’s most famous kings.” (3)
To repeat, Mr. Halley writes that “Moses led Israel out of Egypt either under Amenhotep II, or under Merneptah. (4)
So, the Hollywood version that is shown on network stations every Easter is wrong according to most scholars. The Pharaoh in the movie (Yul Brenner) is Ramses II, not a good possibility.
Halley writes that the one “thought to have been the Oppressor of Israel” is Thotmes III (also known as Thutmose III), Queen Hatshepsut’s half brother (Other sources call Hatshepsut Thutmose III’s stepmother and aunt).(5) In any case, she was “regent” the first 20 years of his reign: and “though he despised her, she completely dominated him.”(6)
“After her death, he ruled alone 30 years. He was the greatest conqueror in Egyptian history.” (7)
Halley states “His mummy is at Cairo.” (8)
This would mean that Thutmose the III was pharaoh when Moses was a baby.
Now you are probably wondering what this has to do with my post title. Hang in there and follow this rabbit trail with me….please?
Very interesting is the fact, again mentioned by Mr. Halley, that “Whichever it was, the MUMMIES OF ALL FOUR have been found. So we may now see the actual face of the Pharaoh of Moses’ day, and with whom Moses himself had intimate dealings.” (9)
I’ve always been interested in the subject and this Bible that I had run across might lend some insight because of its dating of events.
You can probably guess what I did.
I went to Exodus 2 to see when Moses was born according to my new find. (10)
The date given for Moses birth was March 6, 1542 BC. (11)
Mr. Frank R. Klassen of Laguna Hills California must have spent years studying the Bible and putting dates to events. We won’t know if he was right until we get to heaven. I’m sure they have the records up there.
Anyway, I looked to see who the pharaoh was in 1542 B.C., according to Mr. Klassen.
If you are still looking for the connection with Armageddon, I’ll get there.
One problem is that different scholars give different dates for the reigns of the pharaohs.
In many dating opinions, 1542 BC would make Ahmose the pharaoh who knew Moses as an infant. Or it was one of the last pharaohs of the 17th dynasty which was the last dynasty of the Middle Kingdom. If this is true, it depends on how many pharaohs Egypt went through while Moses was in the desert.
Confused? Ok, let’s get to the BIG QUESTION.
I went to Exodus 5 for the BIG QUESTION. When did Moses take the people out of Egypt? If I could find out the “when,” I could find out the “who.”
According to Mr. Klassen, it was on April 15th, 1462 BC, which in almost all Egyptian dating systems puts Thutmose III, “the greatest conqueror in Egyptian history” as Halley has stated, as the one who faced the adult Moses. (12)
That would mean that while Moses was in the desert all of those years, at least two pharaohs came and went, Thutmose II and the famous Hatshepsut.
So, Moses “met” two pharaohs. The pharaoh he saw as an adult wasn’t the pharaoh whose home he was taken into. This is almost certain no matter what dating system one uses.
Now comes the interesting part. Drum roll please. If you’ve waded through this far, you deserve some interesting stuff.
If Thutmose III was the man who had his heart hardened – who wouldn’t let the Hebrews go – then there is an interesting fact you should know.
There have been three major “Battles of Armageddon” in history. The second is recorded in 2 Kings 23: 29-30. It is generally regarded as having taken place in 609 B.C.
The third occurred in 1918. You can read about it here. (13)
It is something about the first “Battle of Armageddon” that is the interesting fact. It was fought and won by Thutmose III, Egypt’s “greatest conqueror.” You can read about the battle here. (14)
Interestingly, this first “Battle of Armageddon” is described as the first battle ever recorded in detail. Google “first recorded battle in history” and see what you find. (15)
I think that Thutmose III’s scribe exaggerated the victory a bit.
Embellished or not, Thutmose III is highly respected. Here is a website that calls Thutmose III “The Napoleon of Egypt.” (16) It also describes the battle of “Megiddo.”
He created the largest empire that Egypt had ever seen. (17)
Here is where I take a leap. I think, unlike most scholars, that Thutmose III was the pharaoh that hardened his heart and would not let the Hebrews go.
Why do I think this? Well, it fits Mr. Klassen’s Calendarized Study Bible perfectly.
Mr. Klassen puts 80 years between the birth of Moses and his taking of the Hebrews out of Egypt. Eighty is a match with the Bible.
This is not my only reason.
If you were God, who would you have Moses face? I’m not God and I don’t know but I’ll take a guess. I think God would choose the greatest conquering pharaoh of all time. (I’ll get comments on this statement and I welcome them.)
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Thutmose III fought and won the first recorded battle in history.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that Thutmose III was the winning leader of the first battle of Armageddon.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that two men who spent their entire lives working on dating systems came up with dates that would put Thutmose III in the important role of the pharaoh of the exodus.
Mr. Klassen isn’t the only one whose dates fit Thutmose III.
Have you heard of J.R. Church? He worked his entire life on a dating system. He is one of my favorite Bible teachers who specialized in Bible prophecy. He died last year.
The last book that he wrote, Daniel Reveals The Bloodline of the Anti-Christ, J.R. has a timeline in it (in the back). It is very elaborate but doesn’t mention the Egyptian pharaohs. You can get more info on J.R.’s book here.
He put the date for the exodus at 1492/1491 on Nisan 15. This date puts Thutmose III closer to the adult Moses than the other three major possibilities.
Did I mention that Thutmose III was the first pharaoh called Pharaoh? (18) It means “Great House.”
To see a good picture of Thutmose III, you can go here. (19)
After a study like this, I have many questions, but a main one.
Why haven’t those who’ve studied these things, the real scholars, come to the same conclusion? Maybe I’m missing something and would be glad to hear it from any of you.
There are many speculations. There are a few You Tube videos that identify “Firoun” as the pharaoh during “Moses time.”
I looked at the list of all pharaohs known from the 1st to the 31st dynasty and saw no name that was close to Firoun. Maybe I missed it, but I looked twice and didn’t see it. The closest thing I could find relating to Egyptian pharaohs is the word firon. (20)
In my short study, I didn’t find anyone else who had narrowed it to Thutmose III. I’m sure there are others out there who have had the same thought. If you find one, please let me know.
I didn’t go that in depth, but I did find a source that narrows the possibility down to 2, Thutmose III being one of them. (21)
There you have it; a theory from a curious person.
If you are ever in Cairo, stop and see the mummy of Thutmose III and I think you will be facing the man who spoke with a grown Moses.
If you want to save yourself the time and air fare check here. (22) You see, Thutmose III’s mummy was damaged by grave robbers. It was “so ruined that later mummy makers used wooden splints tied to what was left of the body to reinforce it.” (23)
Lastly, there is another Battle of Armageddon coming. It’s referenced in Rev. 16:16.
But, that’s a subject for another time.
Now, if I can only find my lost Bible…
Chris Reimers (24)
P.S. I could have saved myself some time by Googling “Thutmose III and the exodus.” But then I wouldn’t have learned anything. I did the google search as a final check as soon as I finished this draft. I found one extensive study that agreed with me. (25) Scanning it I didn’t see the link with Megiddo, however. And I didn’t see J. R. Church or Mr. Klassen mentioned. Their dating systems helped me form my conclusions.
I’m glad I did my own work, though it is not as extensive as the only one I could find with the same conclusion at which I arrived. Steve Rudd feels that the evidence is overwhelming that Thutmose III was the pharaoh of the exodus. Although someone has been here before, I’ve enjoyed a great journey and maybe added a jot or tittle. Click here to see Mr. Rudd’s work and see a better picture of Thutmose III.
(1) Halley’s Handbook, 1965 Ed. pg. 113
(6) Halley’s Handbook 1965 Ed. pg. 112
(9) Ibid pg. 113
(10) The Klassen Calendarized Study Bible, 1982 ed.
(11) Ibidem pg. 74
(12) Ibid pg. 90
(24) Proverbs 3:5-6
It is July 27th, 2013. I am looking at a more recent edition of Halley’s Handbook, published in 2000. In this version, Merneptah (1236) is not a possibility for being the Pharaoh that Moses saw. Here is a quote from the 2000 edition:
“On his stela he (Merneptah) mentions having defeated Israel – ‘Israel is laid waste, his seed is not’ – indicating that Israel was already in the land of Canaan.”
Thus, the two editions do not agree.
They do agree that Amenhotep II is a possible candidate for the pharaoh whom Moses saw.
Rameses II is mentioned in the first 1965 edition as being a possibility of being the pharaoh Moses was raised under. The 2000 edition states “Some scholars consider him to be the pharaoh of the Exodus.”
In the 2000 edition, Thutmose III is “thought to be one of the oppressors of Israel.”
Despite what wiki states about Rameses II being the greatest pharaoh in history, both versions of Halley’s Handbook states that Thutmose III was the greatest.
Here are two sources that agree:
Was this ancient Egypt’s greatest military leader? (National Geographic)
(I saw this first in Mar. 2020. As far as I can tell, it was posted in 2016. My original post was put up in 2012. There are a few other articles and videos which have been posted after my post.)
“Thutmose III reigned from 1479 BCE to 1425 BCE according to the Low Chronology of Ancient Egypt.” This wiki date fits not only both Halley’s Handbooks that I have, but also the Bible that I feature in this post (April 15, 1462 B..C.).
Most Biblical sources put the date near this for good reason. The 2000 edition pictured here makes a case for 1446 B.C. It has good reason. It states:
“Since Solomon began to rule in 970 B.C. (Mr. Klassen puts the date at 983 B.C.) the fourth year of his reign would be 966 B.C. The text says that the Exodus from Egypt took place 480 years before this; that gives 1446 B.C.as the approximated dated of the Exodus.”
This is how Mr. Klassen gets his date of 1462. Either way, the dates correspond with the wiki dates on Thutmose III.
Is wiki the ultimate source? Of course it isn’t. The Bible is our guide and God chooses not to identify, specifically, the pharaohs during the birth of Moses and during the time of the Exodus. Therefore, we must speculate. That is what I have done here.
If you are interested, you can come to your own conclusions. The above post shares mine.
Wow, i am exhausted from the read. Very convincing thesis. I especially liked the rabbit and its trail. I have been down many in my day and can appreciate a well worn path. like all good works you ended up with a great summary. very through and highly convincing. i have been by Megiddo and both times it was unimpressive. Hardly more than a mound.
On your question:If you were God, who would you have Moses face? personally i think God picked the best one. After all Pharaoh was worshiped as a god. Had his own temple with priests praying 24/7. But in the showdown with the only true God, the ten plagues wound Pharaohs watch real tight. The plague of darkness was so dark one could not see ones hand in front of his face.
Great stuff keep it coming.
I am so glad you read this Manny. I don’t think many will but that, of course, wasn’t my purpose.
Thank you for your kind words. It is always nice to get a good review and particularly satisfying when it comes from someone I highly respect.
I don’t have much time to get to the end of rabbit trails, but I was able to squeeze this in and enjoyed the research.
I have never been to Megiddo and don’t think I’ll ever be going. Thanks for sharing your experience. You may have saved someone the trip. At the same time, I would love to see it as unimpressive as it is. It would be kind of like visiting a Civil War site, but on a much greater emotional scale.
You are so correct about the showdown. Pharaoh and all the rest the Egyptian gods were a tad overmatched. Well, maybe a bit more than a tad.
Wow, Chris, you performed some extensive research here! Very interesting.
Incredible timing, too! Just yesterday, I was perusing World Net Daily, following a rabbit trail of links, when I ended up on an article about the Exodus and the crossing of the Red Sea (rather, it was an advertisement of someone’s video guised as an article). Regardless, I found it fascinating, though I don’t know a thing about the producer (in other words, use caution). Apparently, this man went on an expedition to the Gulf of Aqaba, sending manned submarines down and discovered what appear to be coral encrusted chariot wheels strewn all over the sea floor. The gulf is a steep and deep canyon, but there is a landbridge just beneath the waves which would’ve been the only place Israel could’ve crossed.
Who knows if the discovery is the real thing or not. God’s Word is enough for me to rest assured that it happened just like He said.
I must say it is wonderful to hear from you, Pearl. I’m glad you were interested in the article. If you can see the work that went into this, I am gratified. By the way, how’d you like the drum roll? Was it obvious that it was a clothes dryer drum?
I’ve seen a documentary on the exact info you found on the crossing site. It is very convincing. Like you, true or not, God’s Word is my main source.
I hope all is well with you and yours. Please keep the butterflies happy.
Hi Chris, sorry for just now chiming in, been a hectic week! My source, newadvent.org, votes for (drumroll please?) 🙂
… (1234?-1214 B.C.), the fourth king of the nineteenth Egyptian dynasty and the supposed Pharaoh of the Exodus, was the thirteenth son of Rameses II whom he succeeded in or about 1234 B.C., being then long past middle age. His rule lasted some twenty years, during which he carried on considerable building operations in the Delta, and notably at Tanis (Zoan), where, indeed as elsewhere, he usurped a number of some of his predecessors’ monuments. His original works are comparatively few and insignificant. His name is constantly found on the monuments of his father; it appears also in Nubia, and in the old quarries in the Sinaitic peninsula. In his third year, he quelled a revolt to the northeast, possibly excited by the Hittites’ and in his fifth year, he repelled an invasion of Egypt by the Lybians and their allies, which victory is boastfully described on a black granite stela found in 1896 in his funeral temple at Thebes, and bearing the earliest known reference to Israel. He is commonly regarded as the Pharaoh of the Exodus on the following grounds.
On the one hand, Egyptian discoveries have shown that Rameses II founded the cities represented in Exodus 1:11, as built by the oppressed Hebrews, and therefore point to him as the Pharaoh of the oppression.
On the other hand, Exodus 2:23 and 4:19, imply that the immediate successor of that Pharaoh was on the throne when Moses returned to Egypt where he soon delivered his people. Whence it is not unnaturally inferred that Merneptah I, Rameses son and successor, is the Pharaoh of the Exodus.”
wow, great quote to look up some interesting stuff around the Exodus.
I always appreciate your input, Kassey. And thanks for the historical input.
Your source and the Halley’s Handbook from 1965 are close to agreement. On page 113 of the 1965 Edition is the statement:
“There are two leading opinions: Amenhotep II (1450-1420 B.C.), or Merneptah (1235-1220 B.C.).” It seems to lean towards Amenhotep II, however, on the following page (114).
The dates for Halley’s and newadvent.org are very similar as you have probably noticed.
I think most would “narrow the field” to four candidates, as Halley does.
Thutmose III and
To quote Mr. Halley:
“Whichever it was the MUMMIES of ALL FOUR have been found. So we may now see the actual face of the Pharaoh of Moses’ day, with who Moses himself had very intimate dealings.”
There will always be speculation on this issue, and we’ll probably never know for sure until we get to heaven.
Until then, it is always fun to make an educated guess.
God’s blessings… 🙂
I agree! much to look at and consider. blessings Kassey
You got one thing wrong Ahmose was the pharaoh’s daughter who “found” Moses and named him after herself. If you translate Ahmose 1 and Ahmose 2’s stelaes you will see who the Pharoah of the Exodus was Ahmose 2 was Moses.
Thank you for this comment. I am off for a short nap on this rainy Wednesday. When I awake, I will reread my post and your comment and let you know what I think.
I always appreciate input that corrects any errors I make.
Well, I didn’t make it to my nap yet because I was curious. I’ve spent about 45 minutes looking to validate your comment and I can’t find anything across the internet. Would you mind sharing a link with me that backs up your statement?