It is now over 80 days since Caspian was taken from his mother on June, 13th. Nadia was allowed to see her son on Thursday and Friday. Nadia’s request for the visitation hours she lost last week has not been answered. She has also received no answer on her appeal to have Caspian baptized. Nadia has asked about it several times.
The Barnevernet is, apparently, attempting to get any remaining visitation locations changed. It seems the BV wanted this week’s visits at their offices, but it worked out that Nadia was able to have the visits in the setting with which she and Caspian are familiar.
Nadia has been invited to the Save the Children Conference being held in Vienna, Austria on Friday, September 23rd. The purpose of the event is to raise awareness about problems associated with the childcare system in Norway. Those planning to attend include members of the media, representatives of different churches, and involved politicians. Amy Jacobsen, the American mother who had her son Tyler stolen from her by Norway’s Barnevernet, is also planning to be there.
The important decision about Caspian’s future custody should be known within a week or so.
“I’m still waiting for answers from the court. Caspian and I had a wonderful time.” (Nadia is referring to this week’s visitations.)
“I don’t know what happens if I win or if I lose. If I lose, will I only see him three times each year? If I win, will Barnevernet give him back or hold him back for me like they do in many cases where parents win?”
“He is getting so big and learning new things all the time, a smart little baby.”
“It (this situation) is not for the best of the child!”
Eighty days is like years for a baby this age to be away from his mother. Most adults following this incredible story are probably like me; it seems like it’s been ages since Caspian was rudely interrupted from his nap to be removed from the safest place he had ever been.
These updates and pictures speak for themselves. In spite of all that these two have been through, there is a strong connection between Nadia and Caspian. They have been treated like numbers by a machine; there is no humanity in a system where important questions and requests are dealt with in such a haphazard way. A machine would be more predictable.
I have spoken to one of the good men organizing the event in Vienna on September 23rd. I will post all of the information about the event here. The plans include a live broadcast on the internet in English.
I think that Nadia will be taking Caspian with her to the conference in Vienna. At this point, Margaret Hennum, Nadia’s good friend, is also planning on attending the event in Austria. Nadia and Caspian should be reunited soon because of the fact that there is no good evidence that they should continue to be separated.
As information comes in to the Wings of the Wind, I will try and keep readers informed of the latest regarding Nadia’s and Caspian’s case.
I know that all of us need prayer. If you can remember to add Nadia and Caspian to your prayers, it will be appreciated. Nadia is very thankful that so many have prayed for her already.
I’m still lifting up the baby and the mother in my prayers. I hope they are united! As a parent of three young girls under 5 this is heavy for me to read.
Thank you for your prayers, Pastor Jim.
I am thankful you aren’t raising your children in Norway even though it is naturally a beautiful country. What a blessing to have three young girls under 5! And I’m sure you can’t imagine even having one being taken because of something trivial. You may have read that Nadia was taken from her own mother when she was little. They literally tore her from her sister’s arms. Nadia believes that what she experienced in Barnevernet care was much worse than anything that was happening or would have happened if she had been given the chance to stay with her own mother.
Anyway, may God bless you and your family! Your little girls have a praying Father who is serious about his Christian faith. As you know, this is something that many children don’t have. I hope you have a great day!
I don’t think that the information you get about barnevernet in Norway is really fair. I am a former drug addict who got pregnant while I was still using, and barnevernet helped me through rehab and got me the necessary tools to be a good mother. They never talked about taking my baby from me,and to this day I have only good things to say about the way they treated me. I know several others with similar stories, that also got help and support from barnevernet. I know that not everything is perfect,but to say that the barnevern in Norway steals babies from mothers is a lie. Then they would have taken my baby as well.
Thank you for your comment, Camilla. It is nice, finally, to hear that someone has had a good experience with the Barnevernet. I am leaving for church and I will comment more on this when I get home. Were you in a Mother’s Home? If so, what was your experience like there?
I was in a mother home for mothers with drug abuse related problems. I was there from the time I found out that I was pregnant(8 weeks) until my baby was three months old. During this time I went to courses in child development and learning about good parenting. I also tended sessions with a psychologist to times a week. I experienced much care and dedication from the staff and doctors at the center. Of course it was difficult at times, but I knew that I did it for the future life with my boy. All the time I was there, I had contact with a woman from barnevernet, who was available for me to talk to almost any time I needed to. I was a drug addict for twelve years Chris. Not once did they hold it against me, or threaten me in any way. I am not trying to belittle the experience of barnevernet to some people,but I think the best way to get a better child service is to recognise the good work that is also being done. Nothing is black and white conserning human beings. Neither is barnevernet. So.. that was my two cents. For all that it’s worth. I pray for nadia and wish her all the best.
Thank you for letting me know in your next comment that this comment is from you.
About me: You have probably noticed that my blog covers Christian topics for the most part. I am someone who is curious about the truth. Because of this, the priority in my life since I was a teenager has been to try and understand what the truth is in a few areas. A person only has time in this life to spend on a few major things and I’ve spent a good deal asking “How did I get here,” “Why am I here?” and “How should I use my time?” I have come to the conclusion that the Bible is God’s Word and it is very important to my understanding of the world around me. I am after the truth in all that I study. I have been wrong many times in the past and have had to revise many of my views about different things. I’m sure I will continue to make mistakes until I die. I have made unpopular statements on this blog, one of which I am currently studying to see if I make a bad statement. I am always willing to change my opinion on a subject if I think I have made a mistake. I have a tendency to be a serious person but as I teach children between the ages of 8 – 18 in a scholastic setting, there must be a sense of humor in me somewhere. Sometimes people laugh at me when I’m not attempting to be funny. It is rare that I try to be a comedian except when I tell my “joke of the day” to my students.
Thank you for indulging me if you have made it this far, Camilla. My point is, I honestly try to figure out the truth about a matter that I get involved in. If I find that I don’t have the time to research something that I think is important, I listen to others who have more knowledge than I. There are always two sides on most important issues, like this one, and I am always willing to hear both out as time allows. Just like everyone else, I come to my own conclusions.
I became interested in this subject through the well-known Bodnariu case. After learning about that case, I began to learn of other cases. I have spent a bit of time researching this topic. I not only read the source where I first learned of this problem at Delight in Truth’s Blog, I have tried to read articles in Norwegian newspapers, I have asked Barnevernet sources for information, and have kept my eyes open for information about this topic on the internet. I do not live in Norway, as you probably know, so I have to rely on information I can find myself from outside of the country.
What I can say, honestly, is this:
1) I am very happy that you have put your two cents in.
2) Your comment here is the first like it that I have seen that I can remember. I don’t know why I haven’t seen others but I certainly hope to read more comments like yours in the future.
3) I have been focused on those who claim to have had their lives mishandled, disrupted, and even ruined by Norway’s Barnevernet. I know that there must be some who feel as you do because there hasn’t been a greater worldwide outcry. My opinion is that if the situation continues to worsen, one of three things will happen. Either a) the protests will become so great that there will have to be something done to change the Barnevernet; b) things will remain as they are; or c) other countries will begin to follow the philosophies of Norwegian child welfare if they already haven’t. My current opinion is that this would be a very bad thing.
4) I will joyfully change my opinion if I find that my research is wrong.
5) I am glad that you had a positive experience with the Barnevernet.
6) I think you are right about black and white. Relatively few things in this world are purely black or white. I tend to be a very black and white type person and it gets me in trouble at times. I also think that our world has become too grey. Things that used to be correctly very black and white aren’t that way anymore.
7) I think it is wonderful that you are praying for Nadia, someone that you don’t even know.
8) I have been as fair as I know how to with the information I have. I will continue, as God gives me such wisdom, to do the best I can.
one more thing,Chris. I think that the reason for why we only hear about the bad sides of norwegian barnevernet,is that the parents who have good stories to tell feel that the harrasment(?) they get when saying positive things about barnevernet is not worth it. I felt like this(and still feel like this sometimes)too,but I have seen the way you articulate yourself,and I have come to the conclusion that your arena is a safe place to let my mind be heard. I enjoy a good cooperation with barnevernet to this day, and I know of several people who does the same. oh,and the last comment was also from me,I just forgot to sign it with my name.
Your comments should be automatically approved from now on, Camilla, if you use any of the ways you gotten here before.
I appreciate the tone of your comments.
I also appreciate your comments. Your comments have opened a new line of thinking for me. I have not heard that anyone who is protesting the Barnevernet has harassed others. I should have assumed that their would be a few instances of this as there always are in almost anything. However, your comment seems to make this type of harassment widespread. This is something I have not heard. My understanding is that there are those who have lost their jobs because they have spoken against the Barnevernet. From what I have been told by good sources, many are intimidated by Barneveret actions.
I certainly will not harass you. Maybe you can teach me something.
I have a few questions:
Which Mother’s Home were you in?
When were you in the Mother’s Home? I’m curious to know the approximate years (dates) you started and ended in the Mother’s Home.
Is it possible for you to get me a copy, or part of a copy of the training manuals used to train workers in the Mother’s Homes? I have asked Barnevernet sources several times for this simple thing and have gotten no response. As these Mother’s Homes have been around for quite some time, there must be many of these manuals around. Since you have good cooperation with the BV maybe you can ask for me.
I’m glad you view my blog as a safe place. I try to keep the conversions as civil as possible in spite of the serious nature of some of the posts here.
thanks for your comments!
I am sure Barnevernet does good things as well.
About Mothers’ Homes I have read lots of people telling it is for monitoring (for example, political John Alvheim talking about it many years ago in the public) — you are the first one who really tells about getting help.
The statistics on Barnevernet either at Bufdir or at the Central Statistics Bureau of Norway suggests that are big geographical differences among placements outside of home — and at leasts parts of the country seem to have issues with far too many placements outside of home — and mostly the concern is about emergency care orders and the way of supervising them.
Putting all together I dare to talk about a system level failure on emergency care orders and supervision of them. I don’t think there was an issue with any other topics.
I know many positive and many negative stories about barnevernet. Researchers have pointed out many times that there is too much variations in the verdicts and the treatments. Government has tried and failed to level out these differences. I suspect, that especially the treatment of mothers that once used drugs, is VERY varying.
Maybe it was Nadia’s fate that she once had misused drugs AND was raised by barnevernet. Double risk, so to speak. Maybe other former drug users with good experiences with barnevernet had only ONE of these risks in their lives.
The biggest mistake in the system is that it is not open. Nobody learns from others. Each leader can build his own little system inside his little community, as long as he follows the law and all time frames.
People in barnevernet say, with great conviction, that taking children from their homes is the last resort. But if one never knows other examples of what CAN be done to prevent this, they will be left with their conviction.
This is an interesting point, Mechthild.
By “not open” I think you are referring to a lack of transparency. If I am incorrect please let me know.
I am no expert on the Norwegian CPS. I must admit, though, that I have had a difficult time finding thorough statistics regarding items that American CPS/DHS publish often and in depth. Maybe I’m looking in the wrong places or maybe because I don’t speak Norwegian I’m having a hard time finding statistics. Or, maybe they are not made public on the internet. I would think that the money that Norway spends on Child Welfare would make routine and specific statistics easy to find.
I remember looking for American CPS stats and finding more stats than I wanted. They were very detailed and at the touch of a mouse. The American system is far from perfect but it seems pretty transparent from what I have seen when it comes to specific statistics.
I get the impression that taking children from homes is not a last resort in many cases in Norway. I may be wrong and I think you are better able to make that assessment as you are closer to the situation and you seem to be unbiased. If you are biased in any way, Mechthild, you should let me and my readers know.
If taking children is the last resort, one would think there would be standard procedures that are followed before the last resort is ordered. I would think the standard procedures would involve several obvious items. Shouldn’t parents be confronted and at least questioned before the last resort is applied? Shouldn’t the accused have committed a serious enough offense to have the child(ren) seized? Shouldn’t there have to be compelling evidence of wrongdoing before the last resort is taken? I am only thinking of things off of the top of my head, but in a democracy one is innocent until proven guilty.
Obviously, if there is clear evidence that a child is in danger by the offender, separation would be in good order. These are, after all, the most innocent lives, with the exception of the unborn, the elderly and the disabled, on the planet. I wouldn’t take chances if the abuse is obvious. On the other hand, taking a child from a imperfect but good parent can, arguably, be as devastating to a child as abuse. This is where wisdom and common sense take center stage. For whatever reason (most already know that I think much of the reason is spiritual), our world is lacking in these two areas.
I know that abuse occurs. Anyone who denies it doesn’t understand the world in which we live. At the same time, one doesn’t repaint the whole car if it has a tiny scratch. One doesn’t cut down the entire apple tree if it has one bad limb. One doesn’t throw the entire orange away if it has one blemish. None of these illustrations get close to the importance of human relations, but I think my point is made.
With “open” I mean specifically opening court rooms and verdicts to public, just as for crininal cases. These can be reported in an anonymous way. If court rooms and verdicts had been open, one could have seen how barnevernet’s arguments fit the case at hand, and what was tried out, what was not, and why not.
Statistics about Norwegian CPS are open, but somewhat sketchy. and you have to know the definitions. Here is the most complete source for tables and numbers: https://www.ssb.no/statistikkbanken/selecttable/hovedtabellHjem.asp?KortNavnWeb=barneverng&CMSSubjectArea=sosiale-forhold-og-kriminalitet&checked=true
For reports, go to http://www.ssb.no, enter Barnevern in the field “Søk” (=search), and click on “Søk”. Sort the results by “Nyeste” (newest).
A report from the Central Bureau of Statistics about the latest numbers of investigations, measures, kind of measures etc. is found here: https://www.ssb.no/barneverng
(the language is “Nynorsk”)
Another report from the Directorate for children, youngsters and families citing barnevern statistics, with some own data, is here:
(The language is “Bokmål”).
All other statistics are found in investigations on special topics, Practically all statistics from court are found in special reports published in uneven intervals.
Am I biased? I hope not, but my sources may be, and the distribution of my sources. I don’t read court papers in detail, but listen to many different stories. I follow statistics in the field, public media, and a few groups.
I do plan on continuing to study this situation in Norway and it sounds like you may be a good source of information, Mechthild.
Thank you for your links and I will definitely get to them as time allows. I am looking forward to seeing how specific they are and what information they include.
I completely agree with you opening court rooms and verdicts to the public, just as for criminal cases, would make the system much more transparent.
Concerning harassment of parents that report good experiences with barnevernet: This is true, depending on which group these experiences were uttered in. Despaired people from torn-apart families unfortunately often attack other parents that have positive experiences. They view positive experiences as propaganda. All too few groups are moderated. The reason they aren’t moderated, is that they want to be open, give voice to all, and be the exact opposite to the system’s closedness. They don’t see they give voice to pure hatred, too.
Those with good experiences turn frustrated away, and laugh about the others, saying they certainly were bad parents since they had bad experiences.
In the end even parents with first-hand experience don’t talk to each other.
I enjoy your saying that you seek the truth and really dig into the matter. You seem to hold the end open. That is good, because the matter is complex, and the “devil is in the details” (as German speakers would say).
Again, I appreciate that you have shared your experience, Mechthild. You are describing the bad side of human nature (I would call it sin and we all, sadly, have a tendency towards it to some degree) in your first two paragraphs.
I consider myself an average researcher with curiosity. This is a complex issue as it involves the social sciences and philosophy in particular. Taking the words of the greatest philosopher (In my opinion), “the truth will set you free.” I believe, in the end, that the truth will be exposed. Some will be celebrated and some will not be celebrated. I see a world that is becoming more skilled at lying and deceit and it is happening among younger people in percentages greater than I have experienced in the past. My questions are: “Am I realizing something that has always been there more now that I am older?” or “Is the problem getting worse?” I lean towards the latter but I hope I am wrong.
The “details” phrase you have referred to is used in America among all types of people. As I have some German blood in me, I can see how they might be associated with it, however, as they seem to be an organized and generally industrious people. Yet, look at how many of those smart people were fooled by Hitler. It is a humbling story.
The best we can do is seek the truth, I think. As a youngster, Matthew 6:33 became one of my favorite scriptures. The verse starts with “Seek.”
I’m glad that you enjoyed my attempt, at least, to follow where the truth leads.
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