In a chapter about a difficult subject that all churches must think about on a practical level (how the Holy Spirit works in His people) Paul states this:
33 “…for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints.” 1 Cor. 14
This video says nothing about God. It simply states the Biological facts about what a person is. If we can’t even get the “what” right, it stands to reason that there will be a great amount of confusion.
We are born male or female, just as God intended. Much of society has gotten this seemingly simple thing horribly wrong and the consequences can and have been devastating.
I want to make it crystal clear that I harbor no ill will against transgenders except that they should not try to sway others to experiment in the same way. The stakes are too high and the research is unbelievably sketchy in spite of how fast the approval of the experiment is occurring. As articulated in the video below, the swift growth of the acceptance of medical intervention is happening without adequate study. I have major issues with those who are performing medical interventions like these with the insufficient amount of research that has been done on this topic. Who is benefiting from such “treatments?”
I am saddened but not surprised by recent figures dealing with transgender suicide:
“Researchers found that transgender adults were 14 times more likely to think about suicide and 22 times more likely to attempt suicide than rates in the general population.” SOURCE
I wish I had an answer for this problem. I do think people would learn to accept, with the help of God, what they were born to be if they had a clearer understanding of God’s Word.
I would love for this problem to go away but it only seems to be getting more prevalent. I think it is a sad sign of our times. Our technology is way ahead of our wisdom and understanding. May God help those who are dealing with this issue.
Chris, thank you! Once again you have informed us about critical issues that we wish, hope, and pray would just go away, when we must be informed, clear-thinking, and compassionate.
You’re welcome and thank you for your kind words, Maria. I can’t believe how quickly this has become excepted with so little study from the medical community. As a Christian, I’m sure you feel as I do that this one isn’t difficult to see from a Biblical point of view. Sadly, the Biblical point of view is becoming less important worldwide. What is difficult is trying to help people with these issues. Like you, I pray that God can equip us or help us to be knowledgeable enough to assist anyone by finding the right counselor to help get to the root of the problem.
I’m committed to “double down” on my scripture reading so that I may have the wisdom in the times in which we live to attempt to help others to our precious Savior.
Sadly, and admittedly, “doubling down” doesn’t mean that much for me. I trust in God’s Word and it doesn’t take a great amount of Biblical knowledge these days to see the problems if one has had a solid Background in Bible study but I do not spend enough time in it now. That has to change or I will not be prepared.
My blogging and FB time may suffer a bit but that’s ok. It’s becoming increasingly obvious, because of subjects like this, that we need the Holy Spirit’s guidance now more than ever. Please take this admission as a compliment. There are several people that I have met online whom I trust. You are one of them. It is wonderful to have fellowship with brothers and sisters in Christ, even if it is through cyberspace.
17 “So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.”
God’s blessings my dear sister in Christ. 🙂
Brother, thank you – I feel the same about your genuine faith and love. May the Lord lead you as you seek to help people in this life and for the next, that they would find their help in Jesus Christ and be truly okay!
I have a family member who was very ill of a rare stomach disorder and recently I learned he is now transgender. He is in his twenties. This made me feel like I was losing my mind. His Mother sadly supported him thinking this was best. It is a kind of madness.
Thank you again, brother.
Thank you for your kind words, Maria, and for sharing you relative’s story. He is on my prayer list as you are for you concern for him. The “losing your mind” comment indicates a compassion that we need more of in our world today. We can’t excuse the denial of sexuality but we have to ask God for wisdom in how to comment on such issues. Modern technologies have been so helpful in many ways but much of the “medical research” being done is way past the ethical questions that should have been pondered before ever entering very strange “territory.”
You’re welcome and God’s blessings my friend.
Thank you, Chris! Lord bless and equip you further, for His glory and for showing love to others!
It is my hope as well, Maria. I so appreciate your encouragement. 🙂
I don’t know if I ought to comment here, because I know hardly anything about transgender issues. But I do know that some individuals are born with “faulty” sex chromosomes; for instance, instead of two XX-es (female) or XY (male) it sometimes happens that someone has XXY. This may affect both the physical sex organs and, I believe, the way they feel. (It is a genetic fact, nothing I have dreamt up. There is a lot of medical documentation, it seems.)
Other not so usual physical conditions occur also.
Such genetic “programming faults” are unfortunate and of course the individuals are fully worthy individuals, like anybody else. If they have trouble fitting into the most usual gender patterns, then whatever they decide for themselves I think it must be respected, with compassion, as you say.
Marianne, you are right in saying that there are people who are born with disorders of various kinds, such as XXY chromosome. This is sad and represents a real need for wise treatment. What this post addresses is “gender reassignment” and its mistaken acceptance and promotion in our children.
Of course you should comment, Marianne. I always appreciate your insights.
I looked up the condition you are referring to and it seems the most common is called
“Klinefelter syndrome is one of the most common chromosomal abnormalities. About 1 in every 500 to 800 males is born with this disorder; approximately 3000 affected boys are born each year in the United Sates. About 3% of the infertile male population have Klinefelter syndrome.”
I also think that these genetic “faults” are unfortunate and, just like you, I think these individuals have as much worth in God’s eyes and in my eyes as anyone. The people that this post focuses on are people who are born with normal sex chromosomes. There are many who are “normal” who are having these procedures done. I would warn anyone considering such treatments not to choose against the reality of their sex.
Those with genetic differences are “above my pay grade” currently and I would not feel comfortable commenting either way on such cases. I do believe that God loves them as much as He does anyone and that the same scriptural promises apply to them. It would be, I think, difficult to find oneself in the XXY situation and I hope that each finds his/her way to sexual maturity.
I didn’t look real deep but I think there should have been a Christian response to my internet search sooner than there is. If I find a statement about this condition that I think I can agree with, I will share it here.
If anyone knows of a Christian who is an “expert” in this area, I would appreciate their thoughts.
Thank you for your interesting addition to this discussion, Marianne.
I absolutely take the point of Maria and Chris that gender reassignment seems to have developed into a kind of fashion. Would the superficial attitude about it have developed out of the extreme belief, which I have seen regarding som other phenomena (notably, that biological parenthood is unimportant), in “everything” being environmentally or socially caused and therefore open to change at will? There have been tragic examples of trendy beliefs that sex is purely a social phenomenon. I remember a very impressive documentary about David Reimer, and that quack psychologist John Money, whose “gender reassignment” did such a lot of harm to David Reimer
and actually also to David’s twin brother Brian (identical twin).
And you don’t know if you should comment here? Please, Marianne, I know you are a professional in certain areas but I am always interested in what your opinions are even in areas that you haven’t studied. You are a person with common sense, in my opinion, something that is greatly needed in today’s world.
I think your term “superficial attitude” is beginning to fit this subject that is way too important to take lightly. I had never heard of the David Reimer case and we have almost the identical last name. It seems that you know more about the philosophy behind these decisions than I do. I read the link that you have shared and it is a tragic case, indeed. It is these types of situations that are treated so cavalierly that need to be scrutinized. We can learn a good deal from this case alone. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Chris: “The people that this post focuses on are people who are born with normal sex chromosomes.”
From what little I have read about embryonical development, though, irregularities can also take place during pregnancy: In a normal pregnancy there is production of so-and-so-much estrogen and testosteron, which affect the way the anatomy of the baby develops. In some cases the required hormone production does not take place, or the fetus does not absorb it properly. If a fetus with XY chromosomes does not get the appropriate amount of testosteron, the male organs will not develop, and the baby will keep that which is the “default” type body anatomically: female.
By the way, in birds it seems to be the male sex that has two sex chromosomes of the same kind (called ZZ) and the female that has one of each (ZW). There, if the early development fails to be typical, even though it might be chromosomally a ZW, it is the presence of early estrogen that leads to the development of female sexual organs, and a male develops in the absence of estrogen.
It all seems to impact to some degree on what we consider normal sex identity and development.
Probably both Chris and Maria would want to place biological understanding primarily within a Christian frame, and I agree that not everything biology has to say about gender determination and the actual gender change – reassignment – which takes place in some animal species naturally, fits in very well with biblical descriptions. Chris knows that I count myself a Christian, but that i have no trouble e.g with evolution. I do not think of the descriptions of creation etc in the Bible as having been written by supernormal people with absolute wisdom about biology, geology or astronomy, but by inspired individuals with something very important to say about spiritual truth. I value the New Testament more than the Old Testament.
Anyway, if you find what what I say here offensive, you can certainly leave it out, Chris. I appreciate “Wings” and much of the quiet thinking on it, and do not intend to infuse it with “revolution” and unrest.
Another thoughtful comment, Marianne. Thank you.
I must admit that I am completely unfamiliar with the case you described above where the male organs will not develop and where the baby will keep that which is the “default” type body anatomically: female.
Because of my lack of knowledge in cases like this, I would need to know way more before making any type of conclusions about what these folks should or should not do, or how they should be counseled, or what parents of such babies should do.
You are not causing any trouble whatsoever, Marianne. That we think differently about evolution in no way lessens my respect for your common sense and the fact that you have been a voice crying in the wilderness for the right of good parents to raise their own children.
” I do not think of the descriptions of creation etc in the Bible as having been written by supernormal people with absolute wisdom about biology, geology or astronomy, but by inspired individuals with something very important to say about spiritual truth.”
I agree with this statement for the most part, Marianne. If God had thought it necessary to include more information about these things, I think He would have done so. I know how convinced you are in your view and I am pretty convinced in mine. I understand I am in the minority view (anywhere from 15-50% in American polls) and I am appreciative that you have been so nice to me even if I hold a view that some think is unscientific. I’m sure you have seen my posts supporting Young Earth Creationism. I do believe the first 11 chapters of the Bible are literal and inspired (a word you also used).
I frequent, as time allows, more than one Facebook page where the discussion solely relates to this topic. There are Old Earth Creationists, Young Earth Creationists, Theistic Evolutionists (some now calling themselves “Evolutionary Creationists”), and Atheists. The discussions are sometimes interesting and I continue to learn about each view. Sadly, many of the “conversations” finish with name calling or strutting. I have “gotten on” all types for crude comments which only create a breakdown in communication.
After what we’ve been through, I don’t think I could ever find an honest opinion of yours offensive, Marianne. On this issue we disagree. I appreciate that you haven’t made fun of me for my views on origins like so many in the sites I frequent treat those with my view. Many YECs get themselves into “conversations” they have no business being in and end up getting so frustrated they act badly as well.
Each person feels they have adequate evidence to hold their views.
I don’t think I could ever leave a comment of yours out, Marianne.
Chris: “Sadly, many of the “conversations” finish with name calling or strutting. I have “gotten on” all types for crude comments which only create a breakdown in communication.”
Hmm, I don’t pretend to have x-ray eyes into people’s minds, but surely name-calling and strutting seem to indicate both some uncertainty about the ground they themselves stand on and a lack of interest in finding out what the basis is for the other fellow’s beliefs?
Why on earth would I make fun of religious beliefs? I find them interesting. (But I might make a pun: “Why on (young or old) earth would I make fun … !” Hehe.) Don’t forget I have studied History of Religion as one of my subjects. Not specially focused on Christianity, but a general survey of religious phenomena and many religions and religious texts and sources, thereafter a concentration on some of the larger: Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism.
By the way, the Catholic theologian Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (Jesuit) I suppose fitted into one category you described: a Theist Evolutionist = Evolotionary Creationist. I have read a book by him, translated from French (I don’t read French comfortably enough to get properly hold of discussion points of any subtelty), but still in a kind of French style: over-furnished with adjectives and modifications and what not. I did not like it, nor was I convinced by his argumentation. He was a schooled geologist and paleontologist, and it seemed like he was finding a “smart” way of combining it with his religious beliefs – making it fit, so to speak. Better to be like myself: I do not think that rational logic can either prove or disprove religious truths, so if people try to “win” by saying “But if you believe a, then how do you think b? They do not agree logically”, my answer is “I don’t know. Religion seems to belong in a different dimension, “holy” and “profane” are different realities for me.”
The thread is getting thin, Marianne, so I’m replying on a new one.
Marianne: “Hmm, I don’t pretend to have x-ray eyes into people’s minds, but surely name-calling and strutting seem to indicate both some uncertainty about the ground they themselves stand on and a lack of interest in finding out what the basis is for the other fellow’s beliefs?”
I am of the same opinion. Surprisingly, this opinion has only been mentioned a few times in all of the “conversations” I’ve read on these sites. The “hacking” continues unabated.
I appreciate your pun, Marianne. It is indicative of your entire comment. I know this subject is as much debated as any and some people wind up with veins sticking out of their necks at the end of conversations. I don’t think it needs to be that way and I think you agree. Maybe that’s why we get along well even from a long distance.
I remember now that you have studied the history of religion. Like you, I have studied the five “majors.” I think everyone should at least know a bit about these. They are no different than the various positions I’ve mentioned regarding origins in that there are variations within the different positions. I haven’t focused as much on my differences with other major faiths on this blog as I have on my differences with those who are leaders in the “Church” who teach false doctrines.
Marianne: “I do not think that rational logic can either prove or disprove religious truths.”
I agree with this statement. In the end, faith is the determining factor in what I believe. I do not think one has to commit intellectual suicide, however, to hold the YEC view. I am looking for evidence, not proof, to back my position and expect anyone with another view will do the same.
Here is an article shared on one of the sites I frequent that I found interesting. It was posted by someone with a completely different position than mine. He easily states he thinks YECs are nuts even though he won’t admit what his position is. I agree with the main thesis of the article even though I hold a different view than its author. It is called “Scientific Proof is a Myth.”
I use the phrase “I don’t know” as well when it comes to the mysteries of the God of the Bible. How does logic describe a Holy Trinity? We do the best we have with the words God has given us. I obviously think that He has revealed Himself through those same scriptures, however, in plain enough language so that man may learn about the Way, the Truth and the Life. At the same time:
“now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face; now I know in part, but then I will know fully just as I also have been fully known.”
(1 Corinthians 13:12)
I will continue to study God’s Word so that I can better articulate the truths that I believe God has for us in it.