Can you spot the bird?
Two “sort of” personal posts in a row? Yep. It’s an unusual thing here at the Wings of the Wind.
There are much more important matters to be edited.
But what could they be?
News has arrived that there will be a second unplanned day at home with the family because of an Act of God. Too few daddies spend too little time with their families these days and I’m the first to say that my record in this area is not a spotless one.
So, pardon me if the snowball fight is so intense that this blog goes unattended for awhile.
-CR
Bird Tracks
Wings of the Wind 
I can’t tell what kind of bird it is, but I can guess what it’s thinking: “This guy is such a jerk! Look at that, will ya? Not a sunflower seed to be found anywhere! Let’s go over to the Jones’…”
Sorry, Chris…but a little birdie told me to tell you.
I have to admit that I have no clue what these little guys are thinking.
I’ll make you a deal.
When the birds in my yard stop looking so well fed, I’ll check the budget to see if birdseed is a possibility.
Most of the birds here look like they need to start a tread mill routine.
Thanks to the Jones’, the Smith’s, the Pattersons,…
This lil’ bird will give you a break.
I am very happy to hear that. I am curious though.
I was out there with ’em today. Yes, I’m sure they were also in the neighbor’s yards, but the ones I saw were in mine. They appeared very well fed and happy. They also appeared to be foraging. For what, I couldn’t tell you.
There were areas of my yard I just didn’t get to (cut) last year. A particular weed that looks like a type of marigold grew all over the place and the seeds will grab you. I think that may be what they were going for but it’s just a guess.
I know you know a lot more about birds than I do, but in this case I think you are wrong about what that little bird was thinking.
Of course you’re right.That cute, fat and fluffy bird wasn’t worried about a thing, and I’m sorry for calling you a jerk (I don’t really think that). God takes care of all His creation in all seasons. I’ve been amazed to see little birds go after the seed heads of several weed varieties around here. I don’t see so much of that in the colder months, because, by then, the seeds have been scattered by the winds (which is why they’re foraging). But obviously they’re getting something, or else we’d be seeing hundreds, maybe even thousands, of dead birds laying all around…wait…naaaaah! 😉
I’m curious about your thoughts on something else.
Did you hear the webcast? If you did, do you agree with me about my comment on sales proceeds? Did I miss something?
After I read your statement about last night’s webcast, I realized I had mistakenly gave you the impression that I was going to watch it, when I only meant that I needed to keep you from being tied up with my comment so that you could watch it.
My reason being that I have mixed feelings about Abbey Johnson. I don’t doubt her sincerity, but I do have a problem with some of the bigger names which have propelled her to fame (Focus on the Family being first and foremost, which has taken the ecumenical, contemplative path).
I am a conservative, pro-life voter, but I’m not willing to join hands with the greater “evangelical”, tea party movements to make America a better place. My arriving at this current stance is pretty recent (within the last year, I guess), and due to reading a few lengthy articles going into depth on the organizations/people behind the conservative movement.
So, there you have it. I think you ought to go with your gut instinct on the matter of the sales proceeds.
I appreciate the feedback, Pearl.
I hadn’t seen anything about Focus on the Family taking the contemplative path. In fact, I thought I saw somewhere that they had removed Rick Warren’s PDL from their catalog.
I learned a few things last night and after reading your comment.
During the audio interview of Abby, the book was being offered at a discount, thru Ignatius Press I believe. The interviewer mentioned that three different publishers were partnering in printing the book (unPlanned). The one offered during the show had extras in it which I didn’t think I needed.
So, I was checking around while I listened to the interview.
I went to the Focus on the Family website to see what their price was and which publisher they were using. When I pressed on their “Family Store” link, I was sent directly to Christianbook.com’s store. At the top left it states: “Focus on the Family Partnering with Christianbook.com.” The book offered there was published by Tyndale.
I returned there just now. The PDL books are all there. I typed in the name of a person I am studying with great interest: Thomas Merton. All of his stuff is available there including “An Introduction to Christian Mysticism.”
This is all very suspicious and I will have to do more research. I usually like to find things out myself, but if you have easily assessable information regarding your suspicions of Focus on the Family, I would like to see them.
I should add that during last night’s interview, it was mentioned more than once that the interviewer and Shawn Carney, the “40 Days For Life” worker who had an impact on Abby, were not getting a dime for helping with the story. Shawn helped with the interview.
I thought that was a very good thing, but I never heard that any proceeds from book sales would help in the pro-life cause. As I am involved in that cause, the subject is of interest to me.
The book itself, of course, should be very helpful. I read the first chapter, which was available for free to anyone listening to the webcast. I must say that it was very compelling.
In the interview, Abby mentioned some of the expectations that her superiors had of “abortion quotas.” She discussed how one of her reasons for getting involved with Planned Parenthood was because she had been told they were trying to decrease abortion numbers. She learned this was not true.
I think the book will shed some light on what goes on inside of an abortion clinic. Planned Parenthood tried, unsuccessfully, to silence Abby. I think that says something.
Also, I must note that I wasn’t made aware of the webcast by a Focus on the Family email. I get those occasionally.
I was notified of the webcast by my local Right to Life chapter.
As to gut instincts, I usually like to back them up with facts. I did think that the webcast should have communicated something about the book proceeds. I think it was a mistake not to do so.
I may be naïve, but I wouldn’t venture to guess how the proceeds are to be disbursed. I only think some of it should go to print more of the books if it does become a successful deterrent against the greatest crime of our generation.
I’ll go even further than that. I think, in this case, 100% of the profit should go to the pro-life cause. Whatever the proceeds are, they won’t come close to the $350,000,000 bill the taxpayers get each year to fund abortions at Planned Parenthood clinics.
I am not involved in the pro-life cause to make money or to save the taxpayers money. I am involved because there is a commandment that says “Thou shalt not kill.”
How can God bless a nation that has turned its back on Him?
God’s blessings…
You’ll get no argument from me. God bless and strenghten you for defending the defenseless! There is absolutely no way God can continue to bless us when we turn our backs on things that make us feel uncomfortable. There are so many moral issues which demand the Christian’s attention, and each of us ought to take these things more seriously and make ourselves available to Him on these many disturbing fronts. How dull and complacent we are!
Last summer, I was perusing the channel guide on TV and discovered on the Catholic channel (I can’t recall the name of it…EWTN?) that they were featuring Abbey Johnson. Since she’s basically a newborn babe in Christ (isn’t she?), there is no way she could adequately discern between the false church of Rome and the true bride of Christ, especially when so many “bridges” between the two are trusted and respected ministries such as Focus on the Family. This is the most positive reasoning I can come up with on her behalf. Frankly, if she truly is a born-again Christian, I think she’s being used for a greater agenda.
Here are more than enough links to get you started on Focus on the Family. Sadly, you’ll recognize the name of another famous ministry/preacher that many sound folks adore. I find that extremely disturbing.
You’ll also note that Lighthouse Trails is the source for all these links because, well, they’re the only ones doing the actual research!
Be warned that the last link borders on being “R Rated” because of the subject matter, but extremely important nonetheless.
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/newsletter051006.htm#article1
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=5185
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=4911
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=1610
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/?p=1722
I very much appreciate the links, Pearl.
And I so agree with your statement about the many fronts on which we fight. I can only imagine what the Apostle Paul went through.
As soon as I’m done with this comment, I’m heading to the links you’ve shared. I’ve been to lighthouse before and been impressed with their research.
I don’t really know much about Abby. She did say, in the first chapter of her book, that she was raised in a Christian home. I think her parents were Protestant, but I may be wrong. The chapter is very candid. She admits to having two abortions. I don’t know where she attends church now or anything about her current beliefs for that matter. I will have an opportunity to read her book soon, so I should know more then.
I don’t understand what you mean by “greater agenda.” Do you think she is being used to raise money for certain organizations?
I do understand the differences between Catholics and Protestants. There is a reason I am a Protestant. No matter what anyone thinks about Catholics, in many places they lead the fight against abortion. Any time the local Garland County Right to Life group meets, it is comprised of 90-100% Catholics. On the abortion issue, they put any other group that takes the name “Christian” to shame where I live. I would not try and defend much of their doctrine. I will defend their efforts to end abortion.
Again, thanks for your help. I’ll put up a following comment after I’ve seen what you’ve shared.
God’s blessings…
Hi Chris and Pearl. I am eaves dropping here. Let me know if you need me to butt out.
I think the greater agenda Pearl might be referring to is the ecumenical agenda in general (lead by the Roman Catholic Church), of which the Pro-Life organization has been their most effective tool.
Ok. On to the rest of the conversation.
I don’t know anything about the workings of the Catholic hierarchy. It is my opinion, however, that the Catholics who attend my local Right to Life group are only there for one reason; to help save innocent lives.
Unless you have evidence, Dawnmarie, about the use of the pro-life issue to further any other goals, I think you should be very careful about making such claims. If you have such evidence, please present it and I will caution you no more.
I think Catholics are no different than Protestants on the abortion issue. About half are pro-life and about half are pro-death.
God’s blessings…
I think you’ve got a very good point there, Chris, about the good folks on the local level. Sue and Laura came out of the Catholic church and have much to say on it (as you’ve gathered from Sue’s blog). But, yes, I wholly agree with you that normal, everyday Catholics are just doing the best they can with the belief they’ve got: and that is to do good works. Bless their hearts.
I don’t know if you’ve ever read anything by Dave Hunt, but I found his book “A Woman Rides the Beast” to be fascinating look into the history of Rome (I found it used and super cheap on Amazon about two years ago), but I’ve really not invested my time in this study since. As I said earlier, I’ve barely cut my teeth on all this.
I mean no offense to you or the dear people who devote their hearts and lives to this life-saving work.
A very gracious comment, Pearl.
I do know of Mr. Hunt.
Years ago I read one of his books entitled, Peace, Prosperity, and the Coming Holocaust. Because I believe most of Revelation to be literal, I agreed with much of the book then and would probably still have the same opinion if I re-read it.
Back in the early ‘80s, I was definitely in “watch” mode. I am still in the “watch” mode as Jesus tells us to be, but I am much more balanced, I think, in my views. “No man knows the hour” is just as important as “watch.”
At the same time, Men like Mr. Hunt (J.R. Church is a favorite) who study prophecy are needed today more than ever. The situation in Israel is the clincher for me that we are very close to the return of our Savior. The Jews are back in the promised land and they are increasingly surrounded by enemies.
And then there is the apostasy that we are seeing in the church today. And then there’s 2 Tim. 3. Man has become so much more like that “last day” description just in my short (52 year) lifetime.
And then there’s…so many other things.
I wish I had more time for study. I’m sure you can relate.
One of the areas I would spend it in would be prophecy. I’ve got the last edition of the Prophecy in the News magazine laying around here somewhere and haven’t touched it yet. It’s the only magazine I buy.
I’m not against looking into the problems in the Catholic Church. I will review the upcoming Keith Thompson documentary on Catholicism. If it is as thoroughly researched as most of his works, I may make a comment and put up a link.
My focus, however, is within my own “tradition.” The problems in the Protestant churches are an under-discussed topic. I have been spending the little research time available to me to study about Thomas Merton. I’ve chosen him because he seems to be the “main man” when it comes to “east meets west” mysticism. He was a very bad influence before his death in 1968. His influence is worse now than ever, and his methods have entered mainstream Protestantism in a surprising way.
Yes, he was a Trappist Monk in a Catholic tradition. I know that his methods are being taught in some Catholic churches, but that many Catholics are as bothered by these “Contemplative” methods as I am.
I will happily leave the study of the Catholic Church to those who have so much more knowledge than I.
I so appreciate your remarks.
God’s blessings…
Chris, I agree with you. I think it’s about half and half also. Pro-life/Pro-death.
Not sure what kind of evidence…do you mean like DNA, people behind prison proof…or just articles and stuff. 🙂 I can give you some reading stuff but for anything other than that, your on your own. I don’t want the Pope on my tail! HA!
Keep in mind that Roman Catholicism is a false doctrine. It’s not just another christian denomination with a few legalistic tendencies. This movement is a missionary field full of opportunites to share the gospel of Jesus Christ. I just hope that one day we will do it and quit hand holding koom by ya ing Manhattan Declarationing while the born die in sin and go to hell.
This is just the general web-site for the Manhattan Declaration.
http://www.manhattandeclaration.org/home.aspx
These are just some quotes on general ecumenical activities…
“The restoration of unity among all Christians is one of the principal concerns of the Second Vatican Council. . . . In certain special circumstances, such as the prescribed prayers ‘for unity,’ and during ecumenical gatherings, it is allowable, indeed desirable that Catholics should join in prayer with their separated brethren. Such prayers in common are certainly an effective means of obtaining the grace of unity . . . In these days when cooperation in social matters is so widespread, all men without exception are called to work together . . . This cooperation, which has already begun in many countries, should be developed more and more . . . All believers in Christ can, through this cooperation, be led to acquire a better knowledge and appreciation of one another, and so pave the way to Christian unity. . . .”
–Vatican II Decree on Ecumenism, Unitatis Redintegratio
“. . . Catholics should cooperate in a brotherly spirit with their separated brethren, among to the norms of the Decree on Ecumenism, making before the nations a common profession of faith, insofar as their beliefs are common, in God and in Jesus Christ, and cooperating in social and in technical projects as well as in cultural and religious ones.”
–Vatican II Decree on the Mission Activity of the Church, Ad Gentes
“The Church recognizes that worthy elements are found in today’s social movements, especially an evolution toward unity . . .”
–Vatican II Pastoral Constitution on the Church in the Modern World, Gaudium et Spes
“Moreover, ecumenical cooperation is a true school of ecumenism, a dynamic road to unity. Unity of action leads to the full unity of faith: ‘Through such cooperation, all believers in Christ are able to learn easily how they can understand each other better and esteem each other more, and how the road to the unity of Christians may be made smooth’. . . . Many Christians from all Communities, by reason of their faith, are jointly involved in bold projects aimed at changing the world by inculcating respect for the rights and needs of everyone, especially the poor, the lowly and the defenceless. . . . In effect, Christians who once acted independently are now engaged together in the service of this cause, so that God’s mercy may triumph. . . . I have had occasion ‘to insist on this point and to encourage every effort made in this direction, at all levels where we meet our other brother Christians’. . . . Today I see with satisfaction that the already vast network of ecumenical cooperation is constantly growing. . . . Before the world, united action in society on the part of Christians has the clear value of a joint witness to the name of the Lord. It is also a form of proclamation, since it reveals the face of Christ. . . . Such cooperation will facilitate the quest for unity.”
–On Commitment to Ecumenism, Ut Unum Sint, a 1995 encyclical letter by Pope John Paul II
“Encounter with the living Jesus Christ–the way to conversion–the way to communion–the way to solidarity. . . . Generally speaking, many successes can be seen in the area of ecumenism . . . Contacts with more conservative and fundamentalist non-Catholic Christian communities seem to be more easily made in collaborating in pro-life activities . . .”
–Encounter with the Living Jesus Christ: The Way to Conversion, Communion and Solidarity in America, a 1997 document written by the Synod of Bishops–Special Assembly for America
http://www.pccmonroe.com/2010/06.17.htm
Here’s the link to More than These:
Click to access morethanthese.pdf
Here is the Vatican Ecumenical thing a ma jigger:
http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_decree_19641121_unitatis-redintegratio_en.html
Hi Dawnmarie.
There is no question that unless Catholic doctrine moves towards Protestant doctrine, or visa-versa, there will always be huge disagreement.
I don’t see either “side” making concessions any time soon. Any moving that is being done; it seems to me, is on the Protestant side. Some are returning to pre-Reformation positions. As you might guess, I think this is a very bad thing.
Obviously, as a Protestant, I think the Reformation was an event that was necessary and if God hadn’t used Mr. Luther, He would have used someone else.
When I read these words that you wrote:
“It’s not just another Christian denomination with a few legalistic tendencies. This movement is a missionary field full of opportunities to share the gospel of Jesus Christ.”
I couldn’t help but relate it to Protestant Churches.
We could use a few missionaries there.
I can see how strongly you feel about this subject. You are concerned for the souls of others. How could anyone fault you for that?
I appreciate all of the links you have shared and have scanned a few of them.
I don’t yet feel your point is proven, but I have some free time today and will spend some of it reading what you have shared.
Here is a quote from the link that included the Randal Terry story:
“Make no mistake about it–the ecumenical corruption of the pro-life/pro-family movement was the means by which the pope snagged these Protestants and many others, adding them to his worldwide stable of spiritual slaves.”
This is a very strong, and I think unwise, statement. It is my opinion that none of the well-known names in the article who have joined the Catholic Church have done it solely because of the pro-life movement. Yes, they may have met Catholics in the pro-life movement and they may have become friends with them. But these are not uneducated people. They know that Catholics have theology beyond the pro-life issue. These converts to Catholicism are converts because of a choice they made. The responsibility of church choice lies with the individual, not the leader of any particular church.
The last link was of particular interest.
The “restoration of unity among all Christians” in the 1964 DECREE ON ECUMENISM is impossible unless the Pope wishes to embrace the main tenants of Reformation Theology.
I would be shocked and elated if that ever happened.
I’ve got a bit of reading to do, so I’ll comment further later.
God’s blessings…
Hi again Dawn.
Let me start with the Decree on Ecumenism.
The tenants of the Reformation were Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, and Sola Scriptura. I’m sure you are well aware that the Protestant Reformation was based on the concepts of these three Latin phrases.
I believe in “by Faith alone,” “by Divine Grace alone,” and “by the Bible alone.” The last of the three means this to me: Rather than trusting any human to provide information about important religious information, I am to rely ONLY on what the Scripture says. This is why I could not be a Catholic.
The Pope’s effort to unite with Protestants will only be successful if these three tenants of the Reformation become Catholic doctrine. I believe this because I believe these three “solas” are scriptural.
Second, only one of the quotes you shared had anything to do with the abortion issue. (I later noted that they were taken from the Pastor Ovadal article.) It was:
“Encounter with the living Jesus Christ–the way to conversion–the way to communion–the way to solidarity. . . . Generally speaking, many successes can be seen in the area of ecumenism . . . Contacts with more conservative and fundamentalist non-Catholic Christian communities seem to be more easily made in collaborating in pro-life activities . . .”
–Encounter with the Living Jesus Christ: The Way to Conversion, Communion and Solidarity in America, a 1997 document written by the Synod of Bishops–Special Assembly for America
In my pro-life activities, I have never been proselytized by a Catholic. I will say, however, that this statement seems to give validity to your thesis. You must remember that it comes from the leaders and not the average Catholic. Again, my experience with Catholics in the pro-life movement have been pleasant and cooperative; the saving of lives being the only goal. In fairness to the 1997 document that you have cited, I would like to see the entire quote, in context, without the missing words. (Maybe it will be in Mr. Ovadal’s book.)
Third, there is this link, an article by a Pastor Ovadal:
http://www.pccmonroe.com/2010/06.17.htm
It is basically the summary of one conversion story. It includes this quote:
“There is a new ecumenism that’s being brought about by this [pro-life] movement. . . . It’s brought a lot of converts to the Catholic church too. A great number of pro-lifers have started out with, ah, with—in another faith have come over to the church and brought a lot of people into the churches.”
Veteran pro-life leader Joe Scheidler, Roman Catholic, addressing the Pro-Life 2000 Conference in Toronto, Canada
It was out of line for this statement to be made at a pro-life event. I also think, however, that most Catholic leaders have better sense than to make such statements. The Catholics could, I’m sure, point to many similar insensitive quotes made by Protestants.
The man featured in Mr. Ovadal’s article, now a priest, is quoted as saying:
“The pro-life movement drew me toward reunion with the Catholic Church.”
“Drew me toward” and “Brought me into” are different things, by a long shot.
Anyone who thinks that a highly educated man like this one joined the Catholic Church because of the pro-life cause is mistaken. He would not have become a priest unless he knew well the theology he would be espousing.
Pastor Ovadal, makes this statement.:
In More Than These, I include much more documentation of Rome’s all too successful ecumenical strategy. That documentation is from popes, bishops, and such individuals as George Weigel, Priests for Life’s Frank Pavone, Lutheran-pastor-turned-Romanist-priest Richard John Neuhaus, and many other Roman Catholics and evangelical ecumenists. Yes, the ecumenical pro-life, pro-family movement has brought “a lot of converts to the Catholic church” as Joe Scheidler, the tenacious grandfather of Roman Catholic pro-life activism, stated. I know of a number of Protestant pastors, pro-life/pro-family leaders, and “rank and file” activists who have “gone home to Rome” via the pro-life movement. In fact, I knew some of them personally way back when.
Oh no, Dawnmarie. I now have to read a book. And I’ve noticed that you’ve given me a link that includes a PDF of Pastor Ovadall’s 250 page book.
Because this involves the pro-life issue, I will take a look at Mr. Ovadall’s documentation. It will take a while before I’m able to give a review.
I’m no prophet, but I can tell you this. Nothing Mr. Ovadall writes in his book will change anything I do with the mostly Catholic local Right to Life group with which I’m involved. Those Catholics have shown nothing but respect for me and are sincere in their efforts. They have never expected me to accept their theology.
I do not blame or give credit to the Catholic Church or any other “Church” for that matter for the decisions of individuals. No one forces anyone to go to any church. That someone moves from a Protestant Church to a Catholic church is not the fault of the Pope or any priest.
We live in a time where both Catholics and Protestants know little about their theology. The responsibility ultimately belongs with each individual.
I’M NOT SAYING THAT CHURCH LEADERS HAVE NO RESPONSIBILITY. The great Apostle would say, “May it never be.” Spiritual leaders have great responsibility and those who teach anything opposing the truths of God’s Word are in deep trouble.
A final comment about Mr.Ovadall’s article. Here is another quote from it:
“You parents who profess to be true Christians, evangelical and Protestant, have a duty to educate and warn your children against the evils of popery. You parents who refuse to leave off your spiritual fornication–no matter how “mild”–are corrupting your children with your utter contempt for the blood and righteousness, the crown and covenant of Christ Jesus. Say what you want to your children with your lips; your deeds may well make your words of none effect and render your children vulnerable to the sorceries of popery.”
The focus of my spiritual influence on my children has been an effort to teach them the truths of God’s Word. The more familiar they are with the Bible, the less apt they will be led astray by any false teaching. Yes, I have been vocal about differences in other traditions and faiths. My focus, however, has been the Word of God. If they understand it well, they will have no excuse (or reason) to follow anything that deviates from it.
My next comment on this issue won’t be posted for a month or two.
God’s blessings…
An ecumenical agenda, with all roads leading to Rome. Dawn, Kari, Sue and Laura know tons more about all this than I do. I’ve got a lot to learn. I’ve invested my years in other Christian studies. Lighthouse Trails is a great source, as is The Berean Call, and many more discernment ministries. From what little I’ve learned, I’ve concluded that the Roman Catholic church is an oxymoron in motion: number one fighters against abortion, yet leading the way in pedophelia.
You’ve got a lot of reading ahead of you…I look forward to your thoughts.
I’ve edited this comment because I didn’t see your last sentence.
That someone is curious about my thoughts is a very nice thing. I will give it my best shot.
We all have different callings and those who have come out of the Catholic Church can speak more adequately than I ever could to the issues to which you refer.
My focus has been among the Protestant churches which I would call, as you have the Catholics, oxymorons in motion.
I very much appreciate the links you shared. These two links pretty much sealed the deal for me on the FOF issue.
http://www.focusonthefamily.com/marriage/preparing_for_marriage/searching_for_a_sole_mate/soul_mates_or_sole_mates.aspx
and
http://books.google.com/books?id=XlAyLkUK_eoC&pg=PT200&lpg=PT200&dq=%22Gary+Thomas%22+%22Centering+Prayer%22&source=bl&ots=Nwn3uzV4ws&sig=26k_mmQgfceZRitwxi3RdGSbbiM&hl=en&ei=NWEuTYWgKIus8AbVp-CMCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false
Your comments about FOF are correct. They are in very dangerous waters. The description of “centering prayer” from Thomas’ book (the long link) is the same thing that Thomas Merton practiced. I am currently doing a study of Mr. Merton and I can’t believe that any Christian would not see the dangerous spiritual implications of being involved is such things.
Correct that. I can believe that Christians today can’t see the dangers since 70% of them (in America) think they are going to heaven based on good works.
Focus on the Family should know better.
Sigh.
Oh, that comment is very long and skinny and hard to read!
Here, I’ll put the best link here. It’s a book called More Than These.
Click to access morethanthese.pdf
The book is a toe-stepper on-er for sure. No rush. Take your time.
I’m telling you right now that if I would have read this even 4 years ago, I would have been very offended by some things. And you don’t have to agree with everything in it either Chris. There’s something called a matter of conscience and balance in Scripture. Only Scripture can tell you what’s right or wrong as God uses His Word to speak to you.
I also thought that the author had a background experience that would be beneficial in explaining, in more than just “head knowledge” only, what he saw during his time in the various groups.
As far as warning children about the Pope, well, I think that I personally would have benefited from catholic theology when I was learning about things like Mormonism, JW’s and the other cults I learned about in my teens. Do you know I went to church morning and evening every Sunday, Wednesday evenings, summer camps etc. etc. etc. and never heard anything at all about the catholic religion. I heard about lots of others. Very helpful indeed for all of us in our family actually. Both my brothers and my sister married catholics…all ex-catholics now, by the grace of God. I also wouldn’t have told people that catholics were christians, I just didn’t agree with some of their stuff. I would have told my catholic friends in school about Jesus Christ growing up.
I also wouldn’t have believed Hank Hanegraaf (sp?)with CRI when he said that the Seventh Day Adventists were not a cult and that catholicism was not false doctrine. I would have turned him off much sooner than I did. 6 years of wasted time on that man. It wasn’t those things that made me turn him off either. But they would have been nice red flags had I known. I would have not supported FOF for so many years financially.
And yet…God does things His way and in His timing.
As far as the book, offensive or not, it contains what I consider ample evidence, with or without the commentary and opinion of the author of the ecumenical nature of our discussion. What you do with it or decide is between you and God. My personal opinion is of no matter but I do believe that God places and removes people where and when He does according to His Sovereignty.
May God Bless you Chris.
Hi Dawnmarie,
You may want to read a comment I made a few back where I wrote to Pearl that the focus of the little research time that I do have is currently devoted to the movement of new age influences in Protestant circles. As my time is limited, I will leave Catholic issues to folks who know so much more than I.
I will say that my children know the history of the Reformation and the reasons for it.
The only motivation for reading this book is that I am involved in pro-life efforts and am interested in all facets of the issue. It is my main calling, besides being a husband and dad, at this point in my life.
You wrote:
“Do you know I went to church morning and evening every Sunday, Wednesday evenings, summer camps etc. etc. etc. and never heard anything at all about the catholic religion.”
You certainly can’t blame the Catholic church for that.
Today we’ve got kids going to church that often who can’t even name one prophet (I’m speaking of the major prophets of the O.T.). Things have gotten much worse since you were younger. You probably know this.
When I was a youth group director (at age 19 – not a good sign that someone older wouldn’t do it), I took the high school kids to a Catholic Church to see a Catholic worship service. I contacted the closest Catholic Church to let them know that we were studying folks who believed in different things and asked if it would be O.K. if we attended a mass. We were welcomed with open arms and when we arrived, we were ushered into the front row so that we could see everything that was happening.
I’m not writing this to tell you what a wonderful teacher I was. I writing this to explain that I do discuss these issues with people that God gives me responsibility over. Some would say that taking Protestant teens to a mass is a bad thing. To those I would reply: “How are we supposed to understand what others believe if we don’t study these things?” I am only echoing your statements about how our kids need to be educated.
We are at the point, however, where we must start in our own front yard before we clean up our neighbor’s yards. Most of our kids (adults for that matter) can’t name the four gospels or the first five books of the Bible, much less discuss simple doctrine.
The atheists know more about religion than Christians do. (A recent Barna poll said that.)
What’s going on during all those hours that kids are spending in our churches? They certainly don’t seem to be learning much about the Bible.
On the support of FOF, it seems to me that you did a good thing. The problems there seem to be pretty recent.
On the book, so far I’ve read the introduction and first chapter. The man’s commitment to the pro-life cause has been outstanding. It seems to be written by a different man than the man who wrote the short article. His tone is completely different. I think I’m already in disagreement with him over a main premise, but I’ve got chapters remaining and I’ll see how things play out.
Your last paragraph seems to imply that I haven’t gotten past the Ecumenism in the Catholic Church. Everyone in the Catholic Church who is aware of the Decree that you posted is aware of it. And I am also very aware of the effort to “restore the unity among all Christians.”
I won’t repeat what I’ve stated about that possibility.
What I am still grappling with is the other part of this statement you made:
“I think the greater agenda Pearl might be referring to is the ecumenical agenda in general (lead by the Roman Catholic Church), of which the Pro-Life organization has been their most effective tool.”
It is the part in bold letters that is a pretty serious accusation and needs to be backed by evidence.
I have no experience with any such evidence and unless the evidence is substantial I will not accept such an accusation.
I cannot see into another’s heart. I don’t pretend to know many Catholics. But, unless I have proof that a Catholic individual is using the pro-life issue as a tool, I will not believe it. I have seen no evidence of this among the Catholics I’ve been around who are involved in the pro-life issue.
The Catholics show up when it’s time to do the work. They show up in greater numbers, by far, than the Protestants. It is a commendable thing.
One example: The local Right to Life group had a booth at our county fair. Guess who signed up to man it? (Mostly Catholics) And guess what materials were handed out? They were materials from the local pregnancy crisis center; the one directed by a Protestant.
If Pastor Ovadal is able to prove to me that this is happening in the Catholic hierarchy, then so be it. It would be a tragic discovery.
I don’t see how that will stop me from pounding crosses into the ground of a churchyard, next to a Catholic, because we want to show the world how many children are aborted in America annually.
Such claims demand evidence. I will put Pastor Ovadal’s claims to the test. I will see if I think the evidence exists and I will share my conclusions with you.
God’s blessings…
“Your last paragraph seems to imply that I haven’t gotten past the Ecumenism in the Catholic Church. Everyone in the Catholic Church who is aware of the Decree that you posted is aware of it. And I am also very aware of the effort to “restore the unity among all Christians.”
Actually, no. That’s not what I meant at all. I meant as I said. No veiled statement here. No hidden meaning.
Anyway, thank you for the discussion on this topic.